Anime∙Dohyou
Please sign in to access your account or reply to posts. If you are not a member, you may still view and enjoy the majority of the site, but why not register? It's free!

    End of the world?

    Share
    avatar
    sharingan09
    hachi'dan
    hachi'dan


    End of the world?

    Post by sharingan09 on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 3:23 am

    Everyone was talking about it at school today and said the world was gonna end today, and when I got home I did some research. So apparently they built the worlds biggest particle accelerator, costing 9 billion dollars to try and re-create the bigbang.. So if everything goes as planned in 40 min they will start the machine and in a month the world will end because of colliding protons..

    I mean they spent 9 billion to create a death machine when they could wipe out poverty or help the world... but I guess they aren't the only ones not helping the world..

    Oh the sheer stupidity, what do you guys think?
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 11:07 am

    *sigh* Science, eh? This is something that was written about in Dan Brown's book Angels and Demons. Scientists built a tank where matter and anti-matter roamed free just in the hopes that they would collide to prove science's theory that a black hole would be created. And now, we have science smashing atoms that could very well create matter and anti-matter particles.

    "In the coming weeks beams will be sent in both directions simultaneously to create high-speed collisions.

    Scientists around the world are eagerly anticipating data on those minuscule crashes. One possibility is that they will cause the creation of matter - proving correct the theory that there exists a "Higgs Boson" that gives matter its mass.

    Doomsday writers have also fanned fears that the experiment could create anti-matter, or black holes, spurring unprecedented public interest in particle physics ahead of the machine's start-up."
    ~News.com.au

    Who knows, maybe they'll be successful in having matter and anti-matter collide and then it somehow gets out just in time for December 21, 2012.

    Some things are not meant to be known through experimentation. Yet at the same time, the knowledge gained from it, if not destructive, is fascinating. But this one concerns me that humans may have gone a bit too far in search of that knowledge.
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Watari on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 12:43 pm

    i don't know I think it's great, I mean knowlegde is gained from experience and that experience is gained through curiosity.

    On another note I would say that the men involved are smart enough and have looked at every possible angle of this thing to assure that it won't swallow up the Earth, it would after all be in their best interest not to destroy the planet.

    After all I just think of how much they could actually learn from this and about how things are created and that right there just gets me excited.

    This right here just puts my mind at ease about the whole 'black hole' scare;

    "Although physicists acknowledge that the collider could, in theory, create small black holes, they say they do not pose any risk. A study released Friday by CERN scientists explains that any black hole created would be tiny, and would not have enough energy to stick around very long before dissolving. Five collider collaborators who did not pen the report independently told CNN there would be no danger from potential black holes."



    Source CNN.com



    I know, I know, CNN is evil but unfortunately they also have up to date information on a lot of things, I won't use CNN in a political debate or on the war debate but yea.



    Either way I think this is a huge step for science and I'm looking forward to what it can bring about in the world of knowledge.
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 12:52 pm

    Okay then... answer me this...

    Let's say 100 years from now, after the project has either been abandoned or some devastating disease wipes out most of humanity. All of sudden this small band of people wander upon this hole in the ground and open the door. What then? Have these scientists thought past their own glory of the moment to ensure the safety of the future?

    And how do they know that one minuscule black hole won't grow into a larger one if it meets up with another one? How do they know that the larger a black hole might not become more stable? These are the questions to which I have yet seen our scientists answer. It all may be well and good for now... but what my children's future?
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Watari on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 1:04 pm

    I would be pretty sure that when the project is abondoned that they will clean up/remove the accelerator so as no one has access to it.

    You can keep asking the questions of "what if" and there will be a million answers to the "what if" but should those "what if" questions stop any sort of progress??

    What if Columbus asked that question before setting sail? Would things have changed at all?

    I know you're asking a question that pertains the future and not the past but I just think about some of the important events in our history and if we had asked "what if" at that point then some of those events might not have even taken place.

    So your questions I cannot honestly answer without taking a guess at what would happen I'm sure that these physicist have a reason for saying what they say, like I said it wouldn't be in their best interest to swallow up the world.
    avatar
    sharingan09
    hachi'dan
    hachi'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by sharingan09 on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 6:16 pm

    But how would they know that this black hole wouldn't grow and swallow up everything? What knowledge do they have of this and to ensure our safety.

    And then if they cant create a black hole what was the point of this 9 billion dollar project? Theyve used particle accelerators in the past why now this mega one?

    I think some things should be better left unknown.
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Watari on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 6:34 pm

    Why not a big one? The point of this isn't to create black holes, they have stated that it's possible to create one through this method but it's not for sure, but they are saying that the size of the blackhole would be so small and insufficent that it wouldn't have the energy to grow and suck up mass, it would dissolve before growing. Give it time, I'm sure the purpose will soon enough make itself known right now all of us are ignorant as to why they're doing this but they have 25 years of research going into this, I'm sure they won't make this a pointless scientific exploration, but then again we're human so you never know Razz

    More over I'm saying why question why someone does something, I mean where do you draw the line on what you should research and do and what you shouldn't? It's better to have tried to do something and failed then not to have tried something.
    avatar
    sharingan09
    hachi'dan
    hachi'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by sharingan09 on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 6:41 pm

    Yeah so we cant even trust them when we dont know what theyre doing... even if the black hole disintegrates what other purpose do they have..

    And I question why theyre doing it because its in my and the peoples around me best interest and I'm all for experiments and stuff but when it COULD endanger people thats where you draw the line.
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 6:46 pm

    I have to agree with Shar on this. We don't know what their purpose is... and we should trust them all because 'they say'... 'they said'? I don't think so. I trust no one that cannot come clean on their purpose for doing something that has the potential to affect all of humanity, especially when they can't give a precise reason for why they are doing what they are doing, other than mere curiosity. That's not good enough.
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Watari on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 6:57 pm

    It's your theory that it could endanger people, thhe fact is we don't know, if we don't know then how could we possibly know the outcome of such event?

    I believe that it won't affect humanity in the least bit and I have said this before the purpose of this machine isn't to create black holes, it's to smash particles together at high speeds in an attempt to understand what happens when particles smash together at high speeds, one THEORY (there's that crazy word again) is that it could create a black hole (we don't know this).

    Here is a quote from CNN.com on this matter and this is what they're after in this experiment;

    "They say the experiment has the potential to confirm theories that physicists have been working on for decades including the possible existence of extra dimensions. They also hope to find a theoretical particle called the Higgs boson -- sometimes referred to as the "God particle," which has never been detected, but would help explain why matter has mass."
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 7:08 pm

    Yes, I posted a quote of that nature in the second post of this thread. But what you are neglecting to see is that their 'theory' isn't any more safe as our 'concern' that it MAY not be. We're not coming up with theories that it isn't safe, unlike them coming up with theories that it is.You're right, we don't know... neither do the scientists. But let's not forget that Einstein did not come to the equation of E=mc(squared) with any theory that it would be used to wipe out millions of people of another country either... to which some of the after effects are still lingering today.

    If they want to smash atoms to damn badly, then why the big secret up until the time of getting ready to put the atom smasher to work? Why didn't they just build the thing on the moon?

    But as Shar put in the opening post... why did they choose to spend 9 billion dollars on a theory instead of helping wipe out poverty and hunger? Something that is not a theory, but reality already.
    avatar
    KageSenko
    go'dan
    go'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by KageSenko on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 8:55 pm

    9 billion dollars would help out alot ... probably make shelters around the world for homeless or somthing... theyre just playing god or w.e and will probably fck up and destroy the world even more... curiosity killed the cat ... what would happen if they got the schematics wrong? or somthing wrong with their planning and it made something irraversable and would cause the world to go downhill... i agree with sharingan and kyo


    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Watari on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 9:14 pm

    Well fine I'll be the black sheep and be the optimistic one! Razz Either way as I told Kyouri, this topic has no right answers, the only right answer here is what we want to believe is right. There are no facts to back up either side and so really it just comes down to you believe what you want to believe until this thing actually gets going full board The only real fact we have is that this thing is going and it's started, now all we have to do is wait..

    Plus if the world does end we can just blame Europe
    avatar
    sharingan09
    hachi'dan
    hachi'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by sharingan09 on Thu 11 Sep 2008, 6:30 pm

    So neither sides know what the outcome will be and just BELIEVE what they think is right, don't you think they'd take the safer option of not doing something like that when there is a possible bad outcome as well?

    I dont think we'd be blaming anyone because if this DOES happen it'd all happen in less then a fifth of a second so who to blame?
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Watari on Fri 12 Sep 2008, 1:18 am

    People believe so strongly in the work they're doing that they will honestly believe that no harm will come because of it, I say if you don't do it you will never know, but you know what that's me. Back in the day they use to believe the world was flat, what would happen if they said "well it will be too dangerous and we could fall off the earth if we go that far" and just turned around? I mean to be afraid of something that could happen just seems to be human nature, but I believe that once you see it will be alright then this will just subside, but then again we can always just say "maybe a higher power is at play here and if anything happens to humanity then maybe it was just our time?" i don't know I'm not afraid, I'll just wait and see what happens, after all, it is all we can do at this point.
    avatar
    sharingan09
    hachi'dan
    hachi'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by sharingan09 on Fri 12 Sep 2008, 2:58 am

    I do agree with you on the flat earth thing, but back thing people just THOUGHT the Earth was flat and had no evidence of it, but with this they have evidence that there MIGHT be some danger or A LOT of danger but then again they have calculated to see if it would be dangerous but theres still a chance you know?

    But yeah I'm not afraid either but I'm not supporting a cause like this when the money could be put to better use >< I just hope they know what they're doing..
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 11:53 am

    .docstoc wrote:The LHC first beam on 10 September 2008 and the period of beam commissioning in the days immediately after were a great success for both the machine and the experiments. However, the complete commissioning of the LHC machine and detectors, which are of unprecedented complexity, technology and performance, will be one of the biggest challenges in the next year and operation at the nominal luminosity will need continued effort. Recovery from the incident of 19 September 2008 is well under way and the LHC is expected to re-start again later in 2009. The incident was caused by a faulty electrical connection between two of the LHC accelerators magnets, resulting in mechanical damage due to a release of helium from the magnet cold mass into the tunnel.
    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/9115853/CERN-and-the-Future-of-Particle-Physics

    I haven't heard anything about this in a year now, so I went on a search for some updated info and found..... nothing... except:.
    CBC News wrote:Scientist at particle collider suspected of terrorist links

    Fri Oct 9, 11:37 AM

    TORONTO (CBC) - A physicist at the facility that houses the world's largest particle collider in Switzerland has been arrested on suspicion of links to terrorism, according to officials. The European Organization for Nuclear Research, also known by the French acronym CERN, said French officials arrested the man on Thursday in south-east France for suspected al-Qaeda links.

    The Large Hadron Collider, which lies underground near the Franco-Swiss border, is a powerful particle collider that aims to re-create conditions in the universe not long after the Big Bang.

    CERN officials said the man, whose name has not been revealed, was working under contract with an outside institute and said he had no contact with anything that could have been used for terrorism. He had been at CERN since 2003, officials said.

    The LHCb experiment where he worked is the smallest of a series of installations along the 27-kilometre circular tunnel that houses the facility.

    "None of our research has potential for military application, and all our results are published openly in the public domain," CERN said in a statement Friday.

    The collider was expected to resume operations in November after a year-long delay because of a problem with some of its electrical connections.

    The news that someone with terrorist connections might have worked at the facility is likely to cause concern because of both the high profile of the giant physics experiment and also the technology in use, which has made some members of the public nervous.

    Before it started in September 2008, the particle collider drew protests from Europeans worried it would trigger a disaster, with some scenarios suggesting the accelerator would create a black hole that would swallow the Earth.

    Physicists and CERN officials dismissed the concerns, with the LHC project leader saying in 2008, "Obviously, the world will not end when the LHC switches on."

    The collider is designed, however, to work at high energies. When it relaunches in November, the collider is expected to begin running at 3.5 tera-electron volts (TeV), or 3.5 trillion electron volts. It was built to move particles at twice those energies.

    The accelerator is designed to smash subatomic particles into each other at high speeds in order to break them down and allow the discovery of smaller, more fundamental particles.

    The prosecutor's office in the Isere region of France said the case has been transferred to the anti-terrorist section of the Paris prosecutor's office.
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/091009/world/technology_collider_arrest_france_3

    And my personal opinion about the 'flat earth theory'... Native Americans would still be roaming free if people just kept their butts home. *shrugs*


    Last edited by Kyouri on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    KageSenko
    go'dan
    go'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by KageSenko on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 12:06 pm

    power corrupts... absolute power corrupts absolutely Razz, lol @ Canada


    avatar
    YukariSendou
    san'dan
    san'dan


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by YukariSendou on Mon 19 Oct 2009, 12:40 pm

    Why are we giving the right to a few people to try to kill us...*sigh* this is really dumb. The fact that people use so much money to try to see if something dangerously close to death will work is irritating. I wish they'd find something that could help people eat everyday. And have a home to sleep everynight. Sometimes I wonder if the government is run by monkeys
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 11:08 am

    This thread locked and moved to Science and Technology. For further discussion please refer to the thread titled Quick restart of Big Bang Machine....

    LOCK >

    Sponsored content


    Re: End of the world?

    Post by Sponsored content