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    Global Warming Debate

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    Do You Believe There is Global Warming?

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    Kyouri Kai
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    Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 25 Nov 2009, 8:08 am

    The debate over global warming is actually a bit older than most people may realize since it didn't really become a 'hot topic' until 2002, mainly due to the advantages of the internet and people being able to get together and spread the word.

    Recently, some emails were hacked from a scientific operation in the United Kingdom that, according to the person who obtained the emails from the hacker, shows that scientists are making this stuff up.

    However, a quick search on the net reveals a plethora of topics posted by the scientific community and political left-wingers debunking the hackers and calling it all a right-wing conspiracy. It is kind of difficult to actually find the alleged 'news' from the one claiming the global warming hoax, but it sure didn't take the scientific side very long to make sure their voices were heard... just in case, I suppose.

    So what do you think? Global warming real or not?


    Last edited by Kyouri Kai on Mon 30 Nov 2009, 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edited poll question)
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    Marijane
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Marijane on Wed 25 Nov 2009, 10:09 am

    I haven't ever believed that Global Warming is real. We actually had a small debate about this at a family get together. We all pretty much agreed that it has happen before, and that it is called summer. Razz And that 'Global Warming' is just people over expressing their thoughts.. and that it can't be real. But this is just my opinion.
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 25 Nov 2009, 11:00 am

    lol... Yea, I agree that it has happened before, but admittedly, the winters are getting warmer in my area - less snow, warmer temps. However, in the past we've had our ice ages and then lo and behold, the climate warmed up and melted the icy substance away. Also, it is known that the land masses have rotated around. In my personal, very lay person opinion, that is what is happening again. The polar north has moved... actually, the land masses have moved giving the illusion that the polar north (magnetic north) has shifted. With that, the caps would tend to not only melt, but give rise in a different location. But that's the natural order of things.

    Now, as for the human input... don't think it has much to do with aerosol cans, but we do emit tons of garbage into the atmosphere including sending up the space shuttle and other projectile objects that create holes in the ozone.

    However, scientists are also stating that the sun isn't burning as hot or as brightly as it used to, so what 'is' actually going on? Can't say that I know and I try not to hold a belief one way or the other. The only thing I do know is that this isn't the first time the planet has warmed up, the winters have changed alot since I was younger, and there is alot of money riding on this debate (tax-payer dollars, of course). Personally, I'm more concerned about the next huge earthquake in the midwest or the volcanic eruption in Yellow Stone National than I am about the total depletion of the ozone layer and the planet turning into anything remotely similar to the first rock from the sun.
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    Lrules364
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Lrules364 on Wed 25 Nov 2009, 11:42 am

    This is a big scam to make the government money. Why else would idiots buy a low powered hybrid car? Its no wonder where my tax dollars go to!! like the chevy volt. Why would you buy a battery powered car with an engine in it?! It is worthless!!! This is what I am trying to get across to people! Global Warming IS NOT REAL!(sorry for the emo action there, but i always get worked up over this Razz) If it was real, we would already be dead because of the cars in the 50's-80's. I just find it rediculous on how the hippie people crawl out from under a rock with a joint in hand and say "We told you so man". It is really annoying. Oh, and the world IS NOT going to end in 2012!!! It is just another scare like the y2k before the milenium hit, so ever one, please do not buy into this crap.
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    Watari
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Tue 01 Dec 2009, 12:52 am

    If you look in certain parts of the country global warming is very real, Alaska is one place where it's very apparent, Polar Bears are drowning because there are less Icebergs for them to hope on for a rest between swimming, seals have less ice to hide in during the winter months due to warmer winters, glaciers are receding at a rapid rate... Now the question remains whether it's man made or is it the natural order of things, I honestly think it's both.

    The amount of crap we put into the air due to factories, cars, farm equipment, fishing vessels, etc is outstanding and a lot of this stuff was never meant for the purpose that we use it, it's only our profound intellect that enabled us to harness this energy otherwise we would still be nomads or living the older (healthier in some ways) lifestyle of the hunter/gather.

    I remember as a kid that as early as September we would get snow, we had to make our Halloween costumes fit over our snowsuits and it constantly hit -40 over the course of a winter... Now we are lucky to get Snow as early as November, some years we don't get it till January or February, seeing -40 is a freak of nature now. I do think the Government and most scientist over exaggerate some of the numbers but I don't go as far to call it a government conspiracy as it is very real and if you don't see it then it's probably because you're not in an area that is directly affected by this problem.
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    animeholic_girl
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by animeholic_girl on Sat 05 Dec 2009, 12:00 am

    Global Warming huh? I guess if you are more aware of anything, you'd notice little changes. In my country, there are only two season -- we call it the dry (summer) and wet (moonsoon) season. Ergo, if it's hot -- it's really HOT and so on.. Some people say it's due to global warming. I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
    I guess, I believe global warming only half heartedly. It's something we should be aware of so that we can prevent it but it's also something we can live without caring too much. But as my Nana always say -- prevention is still better than cure.
    Although I must admit, mother nature has its way of getting back at us. Karma, I guess.
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Tue 05 Jan 2010, 7:52 pm

    Was just watching the news and they are reporting record breaking cold / freezing temps across the U.S. - Global 'warming'!? Don't get me wrong, somewhere some time back, I read something that said something about how 'el nino' is the cause of the colder temps in winter. But for the likes of me, I need someone with some sort of lay terms to explain to me how global warming cools things down more than normal in the winter, especially when the summers we are having in my state have also been cooler than 'normal'. What the heck is 'normal' anyway?
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    Marijane
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Marijane on Tue 05 Jan 2010, 10:45 pm

    Haha.. yea.. record breaking cold temperatures does not surprise me.. its -7 where I am right now COLD

    And I dunno what 'normal' is. Its probably depends on where you live.
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    Brutefox16
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Brutefox16 on Wed 06 Jan 2010, 7:53 pm

    *Laughs* I was shovling the drive way yesturday.... n the tips of my hair was frozem ^^ I showed my mom n said "So much for global warming" (thought Would share that)...
    I gotta admit, this is one of the colderwinter we have had in a while. Razz
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    Watari
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Thu 07 Jan 2010, 1:17 am

    Global warming doesn't just affect one section of the world, you can still have really cold temperatures but still have effects of global warming, generally speaking winters and summers have been getting progressively warmer in far norther regions, wildlife is being affected (having to change how they hunt and hide) Polar Bears are a prime example, last year their were so many polar bears found that drowned b/c of the lack of floating ice due to extremely warm temperatures and mother Polar Bears were unable to teach their young how to hunt effectively so many are now starving b/c they have no way to hunt when it's cold out. Global Warming is a very real man made threat, maybe not to the extent that scientist have purported but it is something that humans regardless should be aware about, just because you might not see it in your region doesn't mean it doesn't exist else where

    Normal is relative when you're talking about weather, what's normal 20 years ago is not normal by today's standards, when I was growing up I remember temperatures constantly being at about -40, nowadays it's a rarity to see -40 in my region, sometimes it's rare to see 0 in some winters, most of our past winters we haven't seen snow until January, I think this is the first year in a number of years that the snow has stuck before December. So when you're talking about Global Warming you really have to think outside your little box and take a look at the picture as a whole, but most don't want to do that because it involves "work", I think if you did the research you can find the average temperatures from various regions and make a graph and I'm sure you'll find the temperatures in most places constantly increasing, there should be enough data because most places have been keeping weather archives for 50+ years so that should give you about 1/2 a centuries worth of data to play with and look at

    *DISCLAIMER* I'm not referring to anyone in particular on this board when I say you, I am using you, you're, your as a general term for the general population, I'm quite sure everyone here is quite capable of doing research on their own and formulating and structuring the data to represent an unbiased result but most people in this world/country simply don't want to take the time and effort to do the research necessary instead they rely on others to do their work for them
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Thu 07 Jan 2010, 1:15 pm

    First, let me say that global warming is not new... neither is global cooling. I'm not referring to the seasonal changes, but we've had ice ages that have melted and reformed, rinse and repeat. As for my little boxy area (and I say that because my whole city takes up the whole county and it is shaped like a box Razz ), my father and I were talking just this morning about how the winters actually seem to be returning to 'normal'. When I was growing up, we had really cold temps and lots of snow, just as we are getting this winter. Personally, I believe 'normal' to fall in the realms of the meteorologists, not the average person. Meteorologists measure an 'average' of the past so many years and call that normal. Most people, on the other hand, relate back to their childhood and what they remember occurring for x-number of years and call that normal. I don't really think any amount of research is going to change the 'normal' factor.

    As for global warming being a man-made phenom, *shrugs* I'll be the first to accuse the human populous of overpopulating their own homeland, raping the rock that feeds them, and encircling their atmosphere with garbage. All this does nothing more than cause more body heat (we'll forgo the friction cause that could be a whole nother topic), removes the natural cooling and disturbs the weather patterns, and blocks the escape route for the heat that penetrates the globe ... etc. However, global warming is also a natural phenomenon that has seen many more life cycles than we probably ever will. Where is all the scientific data showing that the Earth has been slowing tilting on its axis? Why isn't that 'natural' information blogged in conjunction with the human role? I feel that the global warming debate is more of a political debate designed to keep the humans from being self- planet-destructive and try and persuade them to clean up their act, and sub-titling it as global warming. I'm not saying that we aren't helping mother nature along, but I have yet to see the proof that human antics (or ignorance) is the major cause of this global warming. While it is getting warmer in some areas across the globe, it is also getting cooler in others. This is not all due to humans, but I do agree that humans as a whole, not individually, are a waste of space (again, a whole nother topic). In the areas where oil is being drilled out of the ocean beds, is typically where we are seeing more and more warming, as opposed to the areas where we are seeing more and more farming and replanting of trees over old coal mines, which is becoming cooler.

    So while some are seeing this global warming occur in their specific part of the globe, some are seeing quite the opposite in their area. In an argument against 'global warming', perhaps it should be better called localized area warming. Just because it may affect the global economy due to produce or livestock, doesn't necessarily mean it is a global disaster... produce and livestock can be relocated, or shifted, in order to maintain the global economic greed. But... just my personal opinion, and not taking what Watari said personally, I am one of those that will not research this particular topic because there seems to be only one side to the story. But for the record, I have previously tried to search for the alleged e-mail hacks from the global warming scientists to find only sites that purported global warming, and I've watched Al Gore's movie in its entirety (thought he would have been better served to be 'that' guy when running for president... perhaps there wouldn't have been hanging chads but full out punches).

    All-in-all, what upsets me the most about this global warming debate is how everyone points fingers, mainly the scientists at the human trashers, instead of looking at how the oil companies (remember, oil is Earth's natural coolant) have had a hand in the auto industry, forcing them to put catalytic converters on automobiles 'to save the atmosphere' when all they really do is give a car less fuel mileage which in turn causes more oil production, which in turn, causes less natural cooling of the Earth, especially in the areas where the oil is being drilled, which in turn makes the oil mongers richer asshats. 'Pelican Brief', anyone!?
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    Watari
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Thu 07 Jan 2010, 7:08 pm

    Catalytic converters actually do serve a purpose in lowering emissions that come out of a vehicle, it really has no effect on how much MPG the vehicle get, you can remove the converter from your vehicle and you'll notice no difference in you MPG you get. Though I will say that oil companies are the main reason that we don't have Hydrogen Fuel Celled cars right now, they are completely viable but auto manufactures for the longest time were swayed by the oil companies and not the consumers to produce bigger, faster, unclean vehicles.

    Now as for global warming, I think it's actually mis-labeled as you have said but not to the degree you have said, I will say that the effects of global warming are more prevalent in certain areas due to the destruction of the ozone layer over certain parts of the world so that's why I feel you see warmer climates in certain areas while others remain unchanged or even cooler, but then again with all the junk we have thrown up in the air it wouldn't surprise me to see that we get some cooling going on as some of that junk creates a sort of shield to keep the heat out.

    I will still hold that normal is dependent on the person, meteorologist while they can say what's sort of normal by data and statistics, you will find that many people don't go by their definition of normal, most people will go by what they remember from their past as being normal, most will pick out a certain time in their childhood which is most memorable to define their definition of normal. I personally have yet to hear someone say "well I was watching the weather channel and they said this isn't normal." doesn't mean it doesn't happen just my experience differs a tad.
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Mon 15 Feb 2010, 2:45 pm

    With snow currently attacking 49 of the 50 states, according to the news reports I was watching yesterday morning, it seems our 'global warming' debate has been taken back up and the term "global warming" has now been dubbed "climate change". It was also reported that for every scientific report in support of global warming, there are just as many scientific reports debunking it. Again, I'm not a firm believer in mass global warming but I do believe that the environment is going to hell because humans are a filthy parasite upon the Earth.

    As for the catalytic converter issue, I've had several people, a few who have and still work in the automotive industry, tell me that they do cut down on fuel mileage. Personally, I don't know as I have not removed mine to find out... don't need the extra legal issue if my car is caught without one.
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    Lrules364
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Lrules364 on Mon 15 Feb 2010, 3:29 pm

    Now Kyo, this may come as a surprise to you, but a couple days ago mine fell off right at the middle of the joint between the converter and the oxygen censor pipe.(because my unlce had to push me out of the ice with his plow that he was driving.) Now, this experiment is actually done by me. I set the trip odometer to zero after it started to drag on the ground. (it made a fart can muffler sound that my sis kept laughing at. it was pretty funny actually.) But anyway, I tied up the converter to the bottom of my car using a tow rope from my emergancy kit, and my passanger seat as a tightner. (It held until I got it welded by my dad. I dont know how to weld that well , but im learning.) Anyway..I actually got more MPG from my car, and at least a 25hp loss from it. (Instead if getting my normal 25 mpg, I got a little closer to 33 mpg.) So, removing the converter is not really a good thing at all. (ecspecially that nasty fart can muffler sound that vibrates your car even more than your sound system. yuck!!)
    But thats my little experiment.

    Now, as for this "global warming" going around, its fake. all of it. This is because it is not humans that are causing the earth to heat up. The earth goes through climate cycles, just like the ice ages and everything. There is a very good movie on this effect that proves "global warming" to be a false accusation and that is actually the earth itself that is changing, and not the humans changing the earth. I just wish there was some way to get it away from my history teacher.

    But many people look at the last 150 years and say "OH!! The temperature of earth is rising, humans are causing it!!" <--------false. The automobile wasn't brought into creation until the early 1900's.(excluding steam powered cars. which may be a good idea. I think BMW has one that runs on water.) And everything else they used back then mostly used organic material. (unless you were rich enough to have electricity.) So it is false. It was even put onto a chart that over the last 2000 years the earth has gone through changes.

    I personally think that this "global warming" craze will die soon and we will look back and laugh at ourselves for even thinking of it. It is just a bunch of bologna that the politicians used to make money. And as for the hydrogen powered and plug in/hybrid cars: They are bad ideas all together.
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    Watari
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Mon 15 Feb 2010, 4:31 pm

    So L, you don't think Humans don't play a role in it in the least bit?! If you think that then well you're just telling yourself a nice little bed time fairy tale. Humans are parasites to the Earth, we consume without regard to the ecosystem itself and trash everything we touch, the Automotive industry is no different, from the oil we slurp out of the ground to run our modern conveniences to the caustic materials used to make many, many, many parts of the Automobile, they are slowly damaging the ecosystem, you can't tell me the exhaust from a 1960's Mustang is alright to breathe in? I'm sorry but the stuff that we put on the vehicles today cause them to not put as much crud in my lungs and if my lungs don't like then I can only imagine what Earths ecosystem thinks of it.

    BTW L, a little history would go a long way for you, Humans have been polluting the Earth for more than 150 years, the automotive industry gains the brunt of it because they replaced something Humans use to use as main source of energy, Humans have used Coal as a main source of burnable energy that polluted the Earth, I would venture to say that Humans have used Coal powered plants and machines for a few hundred years, the train of course being the most popular worldwide.

    So no it's not false, it's blown out of proportion is what it is, Earth may go through its climate cycles and in reality its all just based on theories from scientist because they only really started to track weather patterns in the past 60 or so years, maybe 100. But one thing I like to remember is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, you can use that quote in damn near every aspect of life and understand that it does speak a nugget of truth. While driving a car is good for us, the opposite reaction is that it's bad for something else, to deny that is just ignorance.
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    Ichigobleachfan
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Ichigobleachfan on Mon 15 Feb 2010, 11:13 pm

    Wow, were actually starting to cover some of this in one of my science classes. I think that Humans at least have some part in Global Warming. We pollute and destroy the Earth little by little. I don't know for sure how we are causing this, I just think that we all have something to do with it. oops

    I remember a couple years ago in my science class we were on the subject of Global Warming and my teacher said that it wasn't real, and I was one of the only ones in the class that said it was, and he said that I was stupid for believing it was... I kind of want to go back to that class and be like, look who's right now? Razz

    But I agree, we all have something to do with Global Warming in one way or another one.
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    Lrules364
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Lrules364 on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 2:59 pm

    Watari wrote:So L, you don't think Humans don't play a role in it in the least bit?! If you think that then well you're just telling yourself a nice little bed time fairy tale. Humans are parasites to the Earth, we consume without regard to the ecosystem itself and trash everything we touch, the Automotive industry is no different, from the oil we slurp out of the ground to run our modern conveniences to the caustic materials used to make many, many, many parts of the Automobile, they are slowly damaging the ecosystem, you can't tell me the exhaust from a 1960's Mustang is alright to breathe in? I'm sorry but the stuff that we put on the vehicles today cause them to not put as much crud in my lungs and if my lungs don't like then I can only imagine what Earths ecosystem thinks of it.

    BTW L, a little history would go a long way for you, Humans have been polluting the Earth for more than 150 years, the automotive industry gains the brunt of it because they replaced something Humans use to use as main source of energy, Humans have used Coal as a main source of burnable energy that polluted the Earth, I would venture to say that Humans have used Coal powered plants and machines for a few hundred years, the train of course being the most popular worldwide.

    So no it's not false, it's blown out of proportion is what it is, Earth may go through its climate cycles and in reality its all just based on theories from scientist because they only really started to track weather patterns in the past 60 or so years, maybe 100. But one thing I like to remember is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, you can use that quote in damn near every aspect of life and understand that it does speak a nugget of truth. While driving a car is good for us, the opposite reaction is that it's bad for something else, to deny that is just ignorance.


    *sigh* again with this Watari. Ok, lets start by you finding a 60's mustang and putting your mouth on the tail pipe, cause most cars have a catalytic converter for a reason. Go out to a car dealership and try it. I do it all the time and it never hurts me. the only one's that have emmission problems are the cars from 1955 and back. After that there are no problem's with any car or truck. Even trains are built to a higher standard then they used to be. Sure, they may have used coal in the past, but so what? It never hurt anything and it got us where we wanted to go. I find it very sad that I have to pay for an EPA board to spread the word about this fake "global warming" garbage. Everyone knows it's fake lies, and yet the few people that don't have a clue about the earth go over and find temperature data from the last 150 years and say that the earth is dying because of humans. It's a load of crap and everyone knows it. Think what you want, it does not matter to me. Your too altruistic to even comprehend what you are talking about.
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    Watari
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 3:38 pm

    Provide me scientific results that it's fake, that what we're doing is not harming the ecosystem in any way, shape or form and I will concede my argument that what you're saying is off-base, until then this argument is purely opinionated as we will always have 2 sides to every story, but I will say that it's blown out of proportion, leaving me open to both sides of the story, I can admit that we are partially to blame and I fully realize that the Earth goes through it's changes, it's inevitable that changes happen and to say changes don't happen would be ignorant on my part and I realize that and which is why I won't say it's not going through a natural occurance, because it is. But what I'm also inferring is that we as Humans are playing a huge role in moving that change along which is something we could lessen if we were more aware, ignorance only breeds more ignorance, so I guess my question is, can you see both sides or are you so ignorant that you won't see the other side that we do have some responsibility through our own actions on the direction the Earth's ecosystem.
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 4:57 pm

    Both sides:
    A) It's been proven that deforestation destroys the atmosphere and depletes the ozone.
    B) It was hotter during the medieval period (1000-1400AD) than it is now and humans did not do the things we're doing now nor was the Earth as populated.

    A) Lake Erie froze up this month for the first time since 1995.
    B) A cutback on carbon emissions has curbed the smog, although more still needs to be done *ahem* China *cough*

    The Earth's atmosphere is not as protective as it once was so therefore we are seeing more and more eco issues as well as skin cancers. Yes, the Earth goes through changes and cycles with no help from humans whatsoever, but how much of an eco change would we be experiencing now if humans would just think for a moment and stop believing that polluting what sustains us is of no thought?

    Btw, coal is hazardous to our health in that both of my grandfathers, and many many many others like them, have died due to lung cancer just digging the lumps out of the Earth, but there is no scientific data that I have seen to show it is harmful to the Earth as it does burn on its own and is a natural resource that has not been humanly refined, unlike petrol.

    There are arguments both for and against "global warming". Personally, I think that instead of caring whether it is real or not should not be motivation or lack thereof for humans to use a little common sense and take care of what takes care of them and not be merely motivated by power and greed. *shrugs* Just my personal opine...
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    Watari
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 5:17 pm

    Coal burning by itself is of no harm to the ecosystem as is most natural buring material, the problem lies in with the impurities that go into the production of coal for the masses to use, they use additives to make the coal burn hotter and better and longer so it's not the coal itself but rather the additives that cause it to be harmful and also think about it this way, coal burning in nature by itself doesn't occure that often so it's of no big concern on the environment but when you start burning massive amounts of coal and digging up massive amounts of coal that will have an effect

    I agree with you fully that people should take care of Earth out of common sense as it takes care of us, that we should look around and see what we're doing is bad for our ecosystem and to find ways to improve on what we're doing. Being eco friendly while yes does come with a certain price tag to it, doesn't mean it isn't worth it in the end it all depends on your outlook of it, if L doesn't want a car that runs on a cleaner buring fuel well then so be it, but I won't perpetuate something I don't believe to true and I believe cleaner burning vehicles are going to be a necessity to our planet to make up for a small fraction of the other crap we've done to it.

    Btw I have to ask where you obtained the data that it was hotter during the Medieval times because I was unaware that temperature tracking data was available that far back, another question would be is how accurate is this data?
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 5:35 pm

    The info about the medieval period being warmer I heard on the television this past Sunday during the news and then again today on a local radio station's news while waiting for Pein to get out of school. I haven't personally looked it up to fact-check what they say, but I do remember watching the Discovery Channel/History Channel, one of those two, awhile back and they talked about weather changes and the temps going all the way back to the ice ages, so it could most likely be 'assumptive data', I don't know.

    I do have another question regarding this topic tho... I've heard people around arguing back and forth about recycling. We all know that on one hand, the argument is in favor saying that it is better for the environment because we waste less and that keeps the landfills down. The opposing argument however, is that during the recycling process, more waste is shot up into the atmosphere and it causes us more harm because what goes up must come down and it not only mixes with the air we breathe but also pollutes our waters.

    Now I cannot argue over the fact that people should only consume what they need and not be wasteful. People should also start going back to fresh foods rather than boxed and canned goods which just add to our landfills, which will eventually corrupt the soil. But I also cannot argue against the fact that I'm tired of breathing nasty air and drinking the worst tap-water (Indy was dubbed that) in the nation. Given that, I drink bottled water which adds to one problem or the other - more waste if it is thrown away or more pollution if it is recycled. Yea, I know about buying filters but oh my god, those things are outrageous!
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    Re: Global Warming Debate

    Post by Watari on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 8:46 pm

    Yea I usually take those as assumptive data rather than factual data so unless some way of time travel is possible to study those temperatures I would have a hard time believing the data to be factual.

    The recycling debate that's a toughie.. recycling does in a way create some pollutants because of the machines they use and it does create some gases in the process, now I guess the question you want to ask is, is it worth it to recycle, does the pro outweigh the cons? I mean would it be better to have 20 tons of plactic taking up landfill space or do we release some gases out in the world and create a bench/box/container/building/flooring for someone to use in their home? There really is no right answer, it's dependent on what you want to believe as an individual, does recycling do more harm that good, again every action has an equal and opposite reaction, you can't have the good without the bad so I mean *shrug* do what you feel is right, personally I think the good outweighs the bad in recycling.

    Fact being fact is we have literally destroyed this planets Ecosystem, you can no longer drink water out of the streams without fear of being sick, so you are forced to drink the bottled water and recycle the containers to release strange gasses into the atmosphere, or buy filters and filter the water which also create waste in our landfill, you really will have a hard time getting by the waste in modern society unless you have your own stream that you can filter free of any disease and animal/human waste, raise your own crops and cut your own meat you're going to support some sort of waste by these companies that grow our food for us.

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