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    Affirmative Action

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    Do You Agree With Affirmative Action?

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    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

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    Affirmative Action

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Thu 10 Dec 2009, 11:38 am

    The most recent litigation, with affirmative action being at the core of the argument, is over the civil rights violations of white firefighters who were not promoted because there were too many black firefighters that failed the exam.

    First, in my personal opinion, there is not such thing as 'reverse' discrimination... discrimination is discrimination, no matter the race or gender. So in legal-ease, I understand why Sotomayer denied the white firefighters first federal appeal, who were fighting with the allegation of 'reverse' discrimination. But, moving on...

    Do you feel that Affirmative Action has helped the racial divide?
    Do you feel it has caused even more widespread racial tensions?
    Do you feel that it actually rewards those of minority status with lower education levels and less experience while ignoring the those with a better education and more experience?
    Do you feel that it is the only way to actually bridge the gap between 'classes' of people, not necessarily race or gender?
    Do you feel that it actually exposes the downfall of the less fortunate and their plight to be better educated?

    Here's an example of the current issue at hand:
    "Associated Press wrote:Promotion day arrives for white Conn. firefighters
    AP
    By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 16 mins ago

    NEW HAVEN, Conn. A group of white firefighters who persuaded the U.S. Supreme Court to sanction their promotions over black colleagues are receiving their new badges Thursday in a ceremony that provides symbolic recognition of their victory.

    The high court ruled in June that New Haven officials violated white firefighters' civil rights when they threw out 2003 test results in which too few minorities did well.

    The case became an issue in confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who ruled against the white firefighters when she served on a federal appeals court.

    Fourteen firefighters who sued are being promoted Thursday to lieutenant and captain. Another 10 firefighters, including four minorities, who took the 2003 tests but were not plaintiffs in the court case also will be promoted.

    Dennis Thompson, an attorney for black firefighters who tried unsuccessfully last month to block the promotions of the plaintiffs, said Wednesday that his clients congratulate the newly promoted firefighters.

    "Nobody is going to say these guys are unqualified," Thompson said.

    But Thompson, who is trying to intervene in federal court in New Haven to challenge the validity of the exams now that they have been certified, said the fight is not over because the black firefighters were not heard. In other cases cities have been required to make more promotions than planned, he said.

    "They understand this is a 15-round fight," Thompson said of his clients. "You don't decide who won in Round 3."

    That prompted an angry reaction from Karen Torre, attorney for the white firefighters.

    "Attorney Thompson's provocations and promise, to me, only demonstrates the need for the Supreme Court to take up the issue of the constitutionality of that provision of Title VII that allows such people to paralyze local governments and the civil service and hold the public hostage to endless litigation over the issue of race," Torre said in a statement.

    David Rosen, an attorney for a black New Haven firefighter who is suing the city and arguing he was unfairly denied a promotion, said Wednesday that his client, Michael Briscoe, is happy for the firefighters being promoted and has congratulated several of them.

    "He's not trying to take a slot away from one of the people being promoted," Rosen said. "There are other vacant positions."

    Frank Ricci, the lead plaintiff among the white firefighters who won and is being promoted, told the Senate in July during Sotomayor's confirmation process that the lower court ruling against him "divides people who don't wish to be divided along racial lines."

    Ricci told the panel that "achievement is neither limited nor determined by one's race but by one's skills, dedication, commitment and character."
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_firefighters_lawsuit
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    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Post by Watari on Thu 10 Dec 2009, 5:45 pm

    Affermative Action is a really difficult subject to sum up in a few words or ideas because for one that people are always looking for an excuse to fight something, too few blacks are passing test "oh it must be discrimination", Oh too few whites are getting job promotions "Oh it must be discrimination", too few Asians, Latinos, and Natives are making 6 figures a year, "Must be discrimination".

    I will say that discrimination does exist and will always exist, there will never come a time where discrimination doesn't exist b/c someone somewhere is going to have a problem with someones handicap/looks/sexual preference/etc and they are going to be discriminated against or taken advantage of because of that. Affermative Action has only helped create a bigger divide in discrimination by providing more discrimination but the real question is has Affermative Action helped anything since it's introduction to the American Laws? I think it really depends on what side of the fence you are on, for Black/Latino/Asians this has helped a lot of people in a lot of ways, if you're white in America then more than likely you're going to experience something along the lines of what these firefighters have experienced. Another downside is that it can reward people for actually doing less b/c of their nationality so I have to say this is a difficult and touchy subject that's going to be going on for a LOOOOOOONG time to come.
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    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

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    Re: Affirmative Action

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Thu 10 Dec 2009, 8:10 pm

    *nods* I have to say that I agree with you, Watari... it is a rather controversial subject with both sides presenting coherent arguments. Even being a female, I've always believed that the most qualified person deserved the position that was open, no matter their race or gender. How is that saying? "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link"? You put a lesser qualified person into a position then the chain becomes weaker.

    As for the argument that certain cultures have an advantage over another because of their education system *shakes head*, sorry, but that doesn't fly. The doctor that delivered my first two boys was a black male. He was also head of the county Board of Health and sat on many medical boards and commissions. He came from the slums and made something of himself because 'he' wanted that life and not a life in prison, which happens to be majorily black males. Also, there are many white people that do have the education in the fancier, not finer, schools who end up failing at life, too. Personally I believe it is in the individual, not the household. We either strive to become more, or we don't.

    So back on the affirmative action bit... I think Title VII is good enough... no discrimination. Without discrimination, everyone is at least given the opportunity to advance based upon their own deeds, and not an impartial bias of having to meet a racial quota. But again, I agree with Watari that this issue is a bit muddied and a clear, precise answer is not really out there yet.

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