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    Human Cloning and the Soul

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    Human Cloning - Good or Bad?

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    Kyouri Kai
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    Human Cloning and the Soul

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Sun 28 Feb 2010, 9:10 pm

    I put this topic under 'Social Sciences' because not only does it involve Science and Religion, it also incorporates all the other 'ologies' as well. Cloning can be looked at and debated psychologically, physiologically, anthropologically, etc. Here's an article written by one man with a Christian mindset, 7 years ago:
    David Limbaugh wrote:Human cloning: It's the soul, stupid!
    Posted: January 03, 2003
    1:00 am Eastern

    By David Limbaugh
    2010 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

    Regardless of whether a cloned human being was actually born as claimed, our society should use this disturbing report constructively by hastening our ethical evaluation of human cloning.

    If the Raelien cult's claim is false, it's only a matter of time before it happens. After all, the Raeliens are not the only ones engaged in this horrifying enterprise. A fertility clinic in Italy and an embryology laboratory in Kentucky also claim to be close.

    Brigitte Boisselier, president of Clonaid, the human cloning company engineering this process, appears to be right out of "The Addams Family" or "Munsters" TV series. And the Raelien cult, with which Boisselier is associated, believes that the human race was begun by extraterrestrials some 25,000 years ago. But we shouldn't let the comical aspects of this insanity overshadow its grave implications.

    In all seriousness, just who do we think we are? Are we so self-absorbed as a species; have we become so coarse, so vulgar, so narcissistic that we can't recognize that our scientific capacity exponentially exceeds our moral maturity? Shouldn't we come to grips with where we've put God in this equation?

    While we may have made scientific advancements of godlike proportions, there is one of God's prerogatives we'll never have the remotest license to, and that is His authority over our souls. We should fear His judgment as we erect the ultimate Tower of Babel in usurping His sovereign power to create humankind by duplicating babies as if from a Xerox copy machine.

    When are we going to take the time to have this moral discussion? A perfect illustration of how casually we've approached this subject is that the one body claiming to have authority over the legality of cloning is the federal Food and Drug Administration. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that this paragon of unelected bureaucracies contends that it is the body that must approve any procedure aimed at human cloning.

    The more scientific advancements we make, the greater will be the temptation to ignore their moral consequences, because these advancements will bring seductive promises of ever-increasing benefits to the human condition.

    Our opinions on this issue will emanate from our respective worldviews. Since I am a Christian I won't presume to speak for others, but my understanding of the Bible compels me to conclude that human cloning is utterly violative of God's law. Other Christians may disagree.

    The Bible reveals that God created us in His image and that He desires a personal relationship with us. We cannot attain a relationship with Him without humbling ourselves and surrendering to Him. By creating human life through cloning, we have done just the opposite in the grossest imaginable outworking of human pride and the greatest conceivable affront to God. We have not only put other gods before Him, we have made ourselves those gods.

    The Clonaid group says its purpose is to achieve immortality by creating carbon copies of humans, then "uploading" the contents of the original person's brain into the clone. Nothing better demonstrates their contrasting worldview.

    Aside from the fantastic notion that they can upload brain contents and personal experiences from one brain to another ala Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie "Total Recall," how are they going to create a true continuity of consciousness? What happens when two identical beings coexist? How do they avoid the pain and horror of repeated physical death in their little immortality scenario?

    Much more significantly, they are neglecting that little detail we refer to as the soul. Cloning advocates such as Clonaid can't possibly believe in the biblical concept that God creates unique human souls in His own image. Even assuming they can precisely duplicate a human being physically, what about his spiritual aspect? Will he/it have a soul? This is humanism at its most obscene. We are just masses of tissue to be manipulated and reformulated at will our will.

    When the God of the Bible tells us through the prophet Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart," I think He's referring to our souls, our essences not our yet to be fully formed brains. It is a chilling thought that His Jeremiah statement may not apply to beings that He did not form in the womb but that human scientists did.

    We better quit ignoring these pressing moral issues, because we can be sure that science is not going to wait for us to catch up.
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30301

    What are your views and why?
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    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

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    Re: Human Cloning and the Soul

    Post by Watari on Sun 28 Feb 2010, 10:38 pm

    Ah, Human Cloning, I remember this debate from my Ethics class some 8-9 years ago. Taking out the Religious aspect of that article I would venture to say this author has some valid points, Human Cloning can be scary and if science finds a way to "upload" a persons current memories into the cloned human then really they might achieve immortality in the Orochimaru sense.

    I would say that if anyone wants a possible feeling into what it would like to be a clone then go rent the movie "Moon" with Sam Rockwell in it, it's a good flick on the possible effects of Human Cloning and how Corporations could potentially abuse that power.

    I guess the question I tend to ask myself is what is a soul? Everyone talks about it but no one is accurately able to describe it because they themselves don't know if a soul actually exist, do we say we have souls because we each have different personalities?? Then in that sense every animal has a soul. If someone can explain to me what a soul is without diving into a lot of religious non-sense I would love that because right now my best guess is that a soul is the energy that drives our body, when we die that energy is released and goes elsewhere, doesn't matter where, just elsewhere, the earth, water, into other people maybe?! So even in that description you could infer that animals also have souls so why the conundrum with cloning and killing humans, but cloning and killing animals is alright?
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    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

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    Re: Human Cloning and the Soul

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Mon 01 Mar 2010, 10:18 am

    I agree that religious philosophy with regard to the soul comes nowhere near explaining, scientifically I suppose, what the soul is. I also agree that it is mere energy that drives the human machine, otherwise known as the body. I have always found anatomy interesting in that the body is perfectly designed - everything works for a purpose yet without one thing working as it should, the whole mechanism shuts down. Take out the cognitive reasoning that resides within... the brain? At least as far as science has told us, but there really isn't a way to specifically state where the core of our being resides. The brain is the powerhouse, or the engine room so to speak, with the hypothalamus gland being the EverReady battery. It processes what it sees, hears, tastes, smells, and touches, but I can't help but believe that 'feelings' are driven by a different source and that source affects the mechanism in various ways causing the brain to release different hormones and chemicals in response, which in turn affects the other moving parts of the body.

    As for the moral dilemma of cloning, on the one hand, I can't see where it matters because I am who I am, not due to my shell, but to something else unknown to me on the conscious level. On the other hand, given the state of what drives many others - greed - I can't see where anything positive could come from cloning. However, I do see that cloning a vital organ or limb for the person the cells were cloned from could be an astronomical advantage. But to create a whole other person!? I just don't see the value (non-monetarily) in it.
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    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

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    Re: Human Cloning and the Soul

    Post by Watari on Mon 01 Mar 2010, 11:35 am

    I think when it really becomes a dilemma is when you are capable of transferring memories for one person to their clone, how that is possible I do not know but it's sort of the premise of the movie Moon and you can just imagine the pain the guy goes through when he finds out everything he is and isn't, I would say if it's a clone for a body part or even stem cells then yea, kosher, go for it! But when we are able to transfer our own thoughts and memories to another clone, I mean WTF then you're going to have rich people staying rich forever, dictators and martyrs being able to live until they have completed what they want, if they ever complete it at all and that's just not right IMO, so I really human cloning is just a matter of actually cloning the shell not the thoughts and memories that go along with being a person.

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