Anime∙Dohyou
Please sign in to access your account or reply to posts. If you are not a member, you may still view and enjoy the majority of the site, but why not register? It's free!

    Conceptual religion

    Share
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Conceptual religion

    Post by Watari on Wed 18 Aug 2010, 5:00 am

    So I got into a debate with a friend this evening, strong religious believer and doesn't budge from anything and so I said to him, "why does religion have to be set in stone, why does it have to be your way or the highway? Why can't religion be conceptual by nature? To be conceptual would involve a constant state of change and allow that religion to change with the times." So now I ask why do you think religions can't be conceptual? Or can they be and we as humans just refuse to allow them to be conceptual ideas?
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: Conceptual religion

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Wed 18 Aug 2010, 9:54 am

    Personally I would argue that all religions are conceptual in the sense that they are based upon someone's (or some group of someones) concept of what is, what is not, and what shall be, what shall not be. As for the changing of those concepts, it would, in my opinion, come down to merely a changing in the ways we act in order to reach that ultimate end that was conceptualized.

    You and I have already discussed the question that generally plagues the masses of 'how' and 'why' when it comes to beliefs and our existence. So to save that argument, lets say that most people do want an answer to those questions. Here comes someone's idea about it, they present a concept to others, and thus, a new religion is born with followers that hold that same belief, or sheep too stupid to think for themselves (again my opinion).

    Now, looking at the state of the world today, one could argue that a new religion has emerged that is causing so much unrest that the world is now in dire straits. However, there was an older religion that wrecked the same havoc during its hayday. On the other hand, alot will argue that it is due to the lack of religion and children being brought up in it that is to blame for the state of affairs today. Personally, I think it is both. Again, I believe that there is no such thing as 'religion' outside of a social institution designed to control the masses. Everything stems from within. Its just unfortunate that the world is chock full of stupidity... in my opinion, of course.

    The one concept that I would also argue that should be dealt with is greed. Most of society is out for themselves now without an ounce of consideration for others. The concept that should be reinstated is that the universe does not revolve around us as individuals, and no one single person's concept is any greater or better than another (referring to those 'religions' that believe it should be taught to kill the infidels... sorry, but I am not a lover of Muhammed or Catholicism).
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: Conceptual religion

    Post by Watari on Fri 20 Aug 2010, 11:38 pm

    Lol I knew this would nab your attention though while I agree that religion contains concepts within itself, I would have to argue that the religion itself is not conceptual. Reason being is that religion is based on a belief structure and a belief structure is nearly impossible to change thus making it not conceptual by nature rather it's a pretty solid, set in stone, my way or the highway attitude, to me' that doesn't scream conceptual. Science is conceptual for the most part, science can say, "This is how we think it goes... Oh oops we're wrong well how about this concept?" Religion has a hard time acquiring that aspect to it, very rarely will you ever hear organized religion say they are wrong, concepts are ideas that can change, like a gel, you can for a gel to your liking, beliefs we're ideas that have morphed into pretty much stone, changing stone takes a lot of work. But I will agree some concepts in religion can change without affecting the overall religion but if a fact ever emerged that a god didn't exist then you would find the zealots would still oppose the change, the news could even break them mentally.


    Last edited by Watari on Fri 20 Aug 2010, 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Missed word :) didn't want kyo to rip my head off)
    avatar
    Kyouri Kai
    Founder

    Knowledge :

    Re: Conceptual religion

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Sat 21 Aug 2010, 8:59 am

    Re-read the o.p. and still stand by what I stated in my first response to it... religion in and of itself is a concept. You duly noted that
    Watari wrote:some concepts in religion can change without affecting the overall religion...
    Agreed! Catholicism is a fine example of that. Not only have there been a few off-shoots of the main core belief system, but Catholicism has, and continues to, changed its concepts on its teachings and belief structures without dismantling the religion as a whole. Protestant beliefs have had so many altered 'concepts' that there are now over 33,000 different denominations of the same conceptual belief brought on by its core - Christianity.

    As for the one main question that was posed in your o.p.,"why does religion have to be set in stone, why does it have to be your way or the highway?". Again, I would say that the core concept has been altered many times over giving rise to so many 'beliefs' that there is only one way, and that one way (each and every one way out of the plethora of concepts) is the right way. Religion, at is core of creation, was an integral part of societies politics. Even within the U.S. where we have that separation of church and state, no one can deny that each and every president, as well as all the elected officials, has ruled based upon their core religious beliefs (although we all know there are exceptions to every rule).

    I'll continue to stand by my personal opinions in my previous comment with this added notation:
    Wikipedia wrote:A concept is a cognitive unit of meaning—an abstract idea or a mental symbol sometimes defined as a "unit of knowledge," built from other units which act as a concept's characteristics. A concept is typically associated with a corresponding representation in a language or symbology such as a single meaning of a term.

    There are prevailing theories in contemporary philosophy which attempt to explain the nature of concepts (abstract term: conception). The representational theory of mind proposes that concepts are mental representations, while the semantic theory of concepts (originating with Frege's distinction between concept and object) holds that they are abstract objects. Ideas are taken to be concepts, although abstract concepts do not necessarily appear to the mind as images as some ideas do. Many philosophers consider concepts to be a fundamental ontological category of being.

    The meaning of "concept" is explored in mainstream cognitive science, metaphysics, and philosophy of mind. The term "concept" is traced back to 1554–60 (latin conceptum - "something conceived"), but what is today termed "the classical theory of concepts" is the theory of Aristotle on the definition of terms.
    And...
    dictionary.reference.com wrote:
    con·cept
       /ˈkɒnsɛpt/ Show Spelled[kon-sept] Show IPA
    –noun
    1.
    a general notion or idea; conception.
    2.
    an idea of something formed by mentally combining all its characteristics or particulars; a construct.
    3.
    a directly conceived or intuited object of thought.
    –verb (used with object)
    4.
    Informal . to develop a concept of; conceive: Experts pooled their talents to concept the new car.
    Again, religion, at its core, is a concept of ideas by definition. Those concepts grew into beliefs that have now formed structures, all of which are changeable in my opinion, if one just knew which foundational pillar to knock over. *shrugs* But like I said, just my opinion.
    avatar
    Watari
    roku'dan
    roku'dan

    Knowledge :

    Re: Conceptual religion

    Post by Watari on Tue 07 Sep 2010, 5:59 pm

    Ok there is an article that seems very promising in the way that it's promoting the church to evolve and change so I will admit that some people out there are trying to make the christian religion more susceptible to change and make it evolve with the times, I'll post up the article in another post for everyone to read but I still stand by my claim that the core of the christian religion will never change even if proven false people will still cling to the belief instead of accepting the outcome. Anyway on to the next one!

    Sponsored content


    Re: Conceptual religion

    Post by Sponsored content