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    Which Came First.......

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    Which Came First?

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    CommanderStarDud
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    Which Came First.......

    Post by CommanderStarDud on Tue 13 Nov 2007, 8:12 pm

    This aint very serious but its always bugin me so here it is

    WITCH CAME FIRST THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG?

    Hehehe well make a decision and Kyouri if you could kindly make this a poll I would be greatfull.
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Guest on Tue 13 Nov 2007, 8:17 pm

    Which came first?
    xD I guess it's a egg for me. Well for me anyway. :/
    There should to be something that created a couple of eggs to hatch into chickens, like mixed creatures.
    Well, my guess anyway.
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    CommanderStarDud
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by CommanderStarDud on Tue 13 Nov 2007, 8:19 pm

    This is like a trick question cause you need a chicken to lay an egg but an egg to have a chicken scratch well I still dont know so keep posting what you think.
    (unless Kyouri makes this a poll then post stuff)
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Tue 13 Nov 2007, 8:55 pm

    The poll has been created! However, to keep this from being an immediately deleted topic for the reasons of SPAM!, I will turn this into a serious discussion...

    As stated by CSD.. you must have an egg in order to produce the chicken, but you must have a chicken (and rooster) in order to produce the egg.

    It's no different with any other species.. Humans - must have an egg (and sperm) in order to produce a human, but you must have a human in order to produce the egg (and sperm). It's all the same.

    It comes down to a religious and philosophical debate upon one's personal beliefs.

    The egg came first - Belief in Science
    The chicken came first - Belief in the Divine Plan

    Now.. make your choice. Wink
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    CommanderStarDud
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by CommanderStarDud on Tue 13 Nov 2007, 9:09 pm

    Thanks it was just buging me.....
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Tue 13 Nov 2007, 9:20 pm

    CommanderStarDud wrote:Thanks it was just buging me.....

    This is a question that bothers most people throughout most of their lives, because it is a philosophical question that puts one in the center of discovering what they believe. The problem is, it spirals outward.. just as the yolk does as it is forming.. to the point where people begin to question their beliefs over and over again. It's a very simple question, with a very simple answer. The problem is.. people ponder upon it instead of understanding it. It is what is called a Koan.. a very Zen thing.. for it cannot be explained, yet it can be known.
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    Shinkirou
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Shinkirou on Wed 14 Nov 2007, 12:41 am

    The egg, since the mutation(s) that led to the speciation of the modern domestic chicken would have occurred during the meiotic division and/or fertilization...
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    s1nist4r
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by s1nist4r on Wed 14 Nov 2007, 9:12 am

    I think that Chicken came first and I don't really know why. I don't even care who which one came first but I thought I'd tell what I think. :
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    blackmamba
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by blackmamba on Thu 15 Nov 2007, 6:24 am

    Of course I'll base my answer on religion - the chicken came first. o-o
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    blueeyedwolf
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by blueeyedwolf on Thu 15 Nov 2007, 10:30 pm

    I'm with Shinkirou, the egg came first. Cause's he is right most mutations occur during the embryotic stages of development.
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    Fabian920
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Fabian920 on Thu 15 Nov 2007, 11:19 pm

    Logically it should be the egg, because this is where the chicken hatches from, but If you believe in Theory of Evolution then you'd know that chickens evolved from dinasaurs and evolution is process like this:

    2 dinos mate and have retarded feathered baby unlike other dinos it's a bit smaller, its not a checken but a feathered dino so after other generations it gets form of a chicken. If you understood what I just wrote then you're a jenivious (lawl).

    i would pick chikawn.
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    blueeyedwolf
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by blueeyedwolf on Thu 15 Nov 2007, 11:29 pm

    Well actually going on what you said wouldn't the egg come first cause the greatest change in all those generations of species that evolved from the dinosaurs, was during the time when they were in there eggs, cause if you think about how easy it is to disrupt the birthing process of birds(pesticides and other toxins) then wouldn't it be safe to assume that it is during those stages that eggs are being developed that the evolution would occur?
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    Fabian920
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Fabian920 on Thu 15 Nov 2007, 11:43 pm

    Most hardcore question: What pooped the egg then?
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    Shinkirou
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Shinkirou on Mon 19 Nov 2007, 1:03 pm

    Fabian920 wrote:Most hardcore question: What pooped the egg then?

    An organism that the modern chicken is descended from that would be unable to produce offspring with a modern chicken because of genetic differences...
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Mon 19 Nov 2007, 3:46 pm

    I think the best overall answers to which came first are...

    I don't know.

    and

    What does the answer matter to the quality of life that I must lead while I am alive now?

    Wink
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    Fabian920
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Fabian920 on Tue 20 Nov 2007, 12:48 am

    Shinkirou wrote:
    Fabian920 wrote:Most hardcore question: What pooped the egg then?

    An organism that the modern chicken is descended from that would be unable to produce offspring with a modern chicken because of genetic differences...


    So it means that something close to a chicken pooped the egg and a retarded baby in form of chicken was born.
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    Shinkirou
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Shinkirou on Tue 20 Nov 2007, 4:41 pm

    No, that's a confusion about speciation. What defines species is the ability to reproduce. If two organisms can produce an offspring which is capable of reproduction, they are the same species. What would have happened with evolution is that one "chicken" would have a slightly different baby, and when that baby grew up it would have a slightly different baby, and this process would repeat until the original "chicken"'s great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandchild would be unable to mate with the original ancestor "chicken" if it were still alive because of the amount of genetic changes that it had undergone. This organism would then be placed into its own species. The egg that this organism hatched from would have been the egg that the first chicken came from, because whatever layed the egg would have been able to mate with the ancestor, while what hatched from it would be unable to mate with the ancestor. The first organism of a new species...
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    Kyouri Kai
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Kyouri Kai on Thu 29 Nov 2007, 3:34 am

    Hmmm.. does this mean that we would not be able to mate with Neanderthals? We all know that they existed long before the supposed Adam and Eve dates in the Bible, and Darwin has proposed 'evolution', so wouldn't there be a genetic issue in mating? Yes, the biological exterior is different, but just how much does the interior change? I know that we don't really need our appendix (although if it ruptures we die without medical aid), and I can only assume that over time we may end up being born without it. But does that really negate the mating process between the ancestor with it and the descendant without it? They are in essence still both chickens, right?
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    Shinkirou
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    Re: Which Came First.......

    Post by Shinkirou on Thu 29 Nov 2007, 5:39 pm

    It's not in the body that the problem is, it's in fertilization. The plasma membrane of the egg has inhibitory compounds on it that detect the genetic makeup of sperm, and these compounds will not allow non-human sperm to go through plasmogamy. These compounds also stop more than one sperm from fertilizing the egg. The speciation between humans and Homo erectus is due not to our differences in physical appearance, but rather the difference in our genetic makeup. The Neanderthals are actually more like extinct cousins than ancestors, just as modern day apes are more like distant distant cousins than ancestors. Our common ancestor, Australopithecus africanus, has also been extinct for many many years, when it's more specialized ancestors outcompeted it for food and (in the hominids's case) resources...

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